"Discounting" and Devaluing Books

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Waving at Katsunami.
I know in the offline world, maybe a dozen people that read for enjoyment. Funny thing about that is they are all related to me. In my immediate neighborhood, there are none.

Reading just has a bad reputation. It takes too much time compared to other forms of entertainment such as watching a series or a movie, and too much commitment.

In another thread somewhere I've already posted this:

I have had someone say to me: "Why would you want to waste time reading books?" That same person sees no problem with spending equal or more amounts of time on Facebook, or zapping through channels on TV. Another thinks reading books is a waste of time but he can play World of Warcraft for hours on end.

One person even once said to me that any activity that does not earn money now, or helps to earn money in the future, is a waste of time and effort. I think he leads a very empty life, to be honest.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Reading just has a bad reputation. It takes too much time compared to other forms of entertainment such as watching a series or a movie, and too much commitment.

In another thread somewhere I've already posted this:

I have had someone say to me: "Why would you want to waste time reading books?" That same person sees no problem with spending equal or more amounts of time on Facebook, or zapping through channels on TV. Another thinks reading books is a waste of time but he can play World of Warcraft for hours on end.

One person even once said to me that any activity that does not earn money now, or helps to earn money in the future, is a waste of time and effort. I think he leads a very empty life, to be honest.

Yep. I have heard that about reading and various and assorted crafting projects.
I have also been asked how I don't get bored staying home all day.
Now on crafting there is always the other question: "Will you make me ______? And usually for nothing.
Or even worse are the people that say you are not doing anything (have no kids at home) can you help me with whatever.



I have to say on that one, the funniest request was for a crocheted pair of Dallas Cowboys pajamas. He wanted them in two days.

I will agree with you on the empty lives.

[darryl]

My experience is also that reading for pleasure has never been a widespread pursuit, at least not in my lifetime. And, as Katsunami's post demonstrates anecdotally, reading for pleasure has never had more competition. The Internet generally, Social Media, Gaming, all gets better and easier, and in a lot of cases can be better value for money, particularly when compared to agency priced ebooks.

Personally, I blame schools, and the method of teaching English. Yes, there are many people who will never want to read for pleasure no matter what. We are all different. But IMHO there is no better or surer way to kill a potential love of reading than to force High School students to read hundreds of pages, then discuss the book minutely and dissect it painfully, often extracting meanings that the author never intended and that may or may not in fact be there. Then follow this up with an examination or two. And the treatment of poems is even worse. Except for the few kids who love this, it is an excruciating experience and I think drives many off reading for life, though fortunately there do seem to be a few who do recover and often discover a love of reading later in life.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by darryl

My experience is also that reading for pleasure has never been a widespread pursuit, at least not in my lifetime. And, as Katsunami's post demonstrates anecdotally, reading for pleasure has never had more competition. The Internet generally, Social Media, Gaming, all gets better and easier, and in a lot of cases can be better value for money, particularly when compared to agency priced ebooks.

Personally, I blame schools, and the method of teaching English. Yes, there are many people who will never want to read for pleasure no matter what. We are all different. But IMHO there is no better or surer way to kill a potential love of reading than to force High School students to read hundreds of pages, then discuss the book minutely and dissect it painfully, often extracting meanings that the author never intended and that may or may not in fact be there. Then follow this up with an examination or two. And the treatment of poems is even worse. Except for the few kids who love this, it is an excruciating experience and I think drives many off reading for life, though fortunately there do seem to be a few who do recover and often discover a love of reading later in life.

Personally I agree with you.
Not to mention unless English teachers have changed, most pick boring very dry reading.

[4691mls]

I know plenty of people who read because the want to. But maybe that's because I'm over 50 and so are most of these people.

[eschwartz]

Well, I have never had poetry inflicted on me in school.

May be why I still read books.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Well, I have never had poetry inflicted on me in school.

May be why I still read books.

I suspect you actually still read books because you love and enjoy reading them. To me they are one of life's great pleasures. I actually mostly enjoyed English throughout my schooling, but I actually loved reading anything and nothing was going to turn me off reading. But for most (but not all) of my peers it was a waste of time. Even in what in the US would be known as Junior High I thought at the time I was observing the murder of any developing love of reading in the majority of my peers who were capable of developing such a love but had not.

Unfortunately I don't have any real solutions.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by darryl

I suspect you actually still read books because you love and enjoy reading them.

Okay, okay, true enough -- I don't think even poetry would be able to take that from me!

But it would probably get the closest, out of all the things that stand no chance of destroying my love of books anyway.

...

...

More seriously, I didn't suffer much from book reports. I was attacked with Animal Farm, but that was all.
(There were several other books, which curiously enough were both a) things I liked, and b) duds on the book report angle -- the teacher never got around to making us turn anything in.)

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by darryl

Personally, I blame schools, and the method of teaching English. Yes, there are many people who will never want to read for pleasure no matter what. We are all different. But IMHO there is no better or surer way to kill a potential love of reading than to force High School students to read hundreds of pages, then discuss the book minutely and dissect it painfully, often extracting meanings that the author never intended and that may or may not in fact be there. Then follow this up with an examination or two. And the treatment of poems is even worse. Except for the few kids who love this, it is an excruciating experience and I think drives many off reading for life, though fortunately there do seem to be a few who do recover and often discover a love of reading later in life.

I agree with this. Schools should lay off the classics. The Illiad, The Odyssey, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Charles Dickens... This stuff is not for 14-15 year olds.

Let them read ghost stories and horror such as Stephen King if they want to. Then make them tell about the books they read; not the story, but what they liked in the writing, what scared them and why, what didn't and why not... and THEN point them to classics that cover those same themes: H.P. Lovecraft, Allan Poe, Arthur Machen, Ambrose Bierce.

If there are kids who read fantasy, point those to Le Morte D'Arthur, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Beowulf. Some kids will read travel and adventure; you point them to The Odyssey, Jules Verne.... and the ones who read crimes and detectives get pointed to Sherlock Holmes, maybe Hercule Poirot, and Auguste Dupin.

Some of them will try one or more of those classics and like it... or not.

So I think reading is handled the wrong way around.

The same goes for teaching piano. After the basics, start with current things the kids know; simplified movie scores of movies they like, for example, and throw in a classic piece if one is used as the basis for a score.

Why does readhing and teaching instruments always have to be done with material that's at least a hundred years old, and the warning that most of the newer material is not 'it' ?

In my opinion, that devalues reading too; as if all the good stuff was written before 1925 and nothing else noteworthy has been done since then.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Personally I agree with you.
Not to mention unless English teachers have changed, most pick boring very dry reading.

I think the English teachers are people who loved the classics in school, and so they keep picking them. It can also be a problem with the school system in the country; many countries, including the Netherlands (in my time, at least) have a list of books of which teachers are required to select books. If the books are not on the list, you're not allowed to read it as exam material.

Obviously it's done to make exams doable, as a teacher can't read all of the books ever written. I do think, however, that a teacher can ask questions about a book even if he hasn't read it.

For example, he can ask: tell me about the protagonist. Then, you'd expect an answer that tells about the protagonists thoughts, strong points, weak points, behaviour in different situations, why the reader thinks the character behaved like that. You wouldn't expect them to tell you "and then he did this, and then this, and then he went to there, and then the story was done."

[Cinisajoy]

Sort of off-topic but I once had to write 7 book reports in 2 days. It proved to the librarian that I was actually reading the books. Note: it got me unlimited (as opposed to two books at a time) checkout privileges.

[Conan46]

I think too many teachers approach books in a mathematical way leading kids to a perceived outcome. How much better to let the kids read a classic book and come up with their own interpretation. Also the dry way most books are approached leach all life from the otherwise excellent text. Yet once I had a teacher who was so inspired and joyful about LOTR that it lead me to become a fan.
As for love of reading in individuals, I'm tempted to believe it is genetic. Some individuals would rather be tortured than read a book, others are naturally drawn toward reading. My grandmother only had a 3rd grade education, but she taught herself to read and write and was a voracious reader. I almost think you need a "book loving gene" to accomplish that